Voice Machines

Emma: Welcome To our Sonic Interventions podcast, a series hosted as part of the Research Center on Intervening Arts at Freie Universität in Berlin, Germany. My name is Emma Lo. I am a researcher and artist based in Berlin, focusing on intersections of sound, technology, and diaspora.

Emma: I am so pleased to sit down today with vocalist Rully Shabara. I had the honor of seeing Rully perform with his bandmate Wukir Suriyadi as part of duo Senyawa in Berlin during CTM Festival 2022. And now it's a joy to be able to meet up in Yogyakarta today, where we are recording from. Hi Rully, thanks so much for being here.

Rully: Hello.

Emma: So for our listeners who are not yet familiar with you and your work, could you please introduce yourself?

Rully: My name is Rully Shabara. I'm mainly a vocalist. My practices are all about exploration of human voice. In this case, exploring my own voice. And that triggered a lot of projects, multiple projects with different approaches, all tackle the same focus, which is human voice. And that automatically led me to my fascination with language and things like spirituality as well, because you cannot separate that when you talk about voice.

Rully: So all of these other things came across. When someone is focusing on exploring voice, human voice. Yeah, so that's basically who I am.

Emma: Out of your many, many projects, I'm interested in particular in the Xhabarabot Voice Machine since I'm currently asking questions about archives and the embodiment or disembodiment of sound.

Emma: And as you describe on your website, I'll just read the description, “Xhabarabot Voice Machines are prototypes and sketch ideas for exploring possibilities to create new approaches in music making and beyond by using human voice as the only source of sound, (in this case, exploiting Rully's) own voice for everyone to experiment with.”

Emma: (voice machine sounds)

Emma: So, could you tell us a bit about how this project came to be?

Rully: Yeah, there's, there's a keyword in that description, I think is the word exploit. The word exploit is the primary reason why I developed this. But first I need to explain how I initiate any of my projects. I have like a main path. There are three actually, only three parts. That is my, you know, guidelines of what kind of project I want to make.

Rully: There are three, mind, body, and spirit. So in order to explore voice, these are the three things I have to explore in depth. For example, Senyawa will be in the spirit category, you know, where, okay, so I talk about spirits, though, I have to create a project like Senyawa in order to be able to explore that theme.

Rully: And you have Setabuhan with martial arts and stuff like that, that would be the body, you know? And we have Khawagaka, which explores about language and stuff like that, that would be the mind. So you see all of this now where the voice machines fit into this is there's another layer to that is the extension, extension of these three pillars and then there'll be extension. Extension, one of them is how I extend this philosophy, you say, or whatever I learned from working on this three pillars, I have to extend it with human connection, I have to create platforms to apply this and then technology as well.

Rully: You know, now this is where Xhabarabot Voice Machines came about, you know, the project that will help me explore the connection of human voice with technology. Now that's the background of how I initiated the project. Now, the reason is this idea of identity and exploitation. So this is, I think, uh, so you see electronic music, especially the ones using samples and most of electronic music are basically samples, right? So, um, samples are, or electronic sound are never the original, right? It's all, it's only reconstruction or representation of original sound, right? So the sound of, I don't know, the sound of birds you record it and then you put it into your, as your sample in your computer or in your device and you play around with that and you think, “Oh, this is the sound of birds,” but it is – no, it's not. It's just reconstruction of the sound of the birds that you recorded. So there is the original body, you know, there's the original body that produced that sound. Now that means any sound that we use, that we use to play, to make our electronic music samples that we use, these are all just reconstruction by eliminating the body.

Rully: Because now the purpose of the voice machine first, before I started the voice machine, I made an album called impossible rhythms. So now in this album was, I recorded my voice as samples, right? I use all of those samples to create rhythms electronically, so I basically create my electronic music, but all of the sounds are my voice.

Rully: Now in the process of doing that, I realized that, well, I don't need me to sing anymore. Right? If I can do this, right? But that's a great another question. Like, okay, so if this happens, then that means when people create making music from samples or electronic music, basically. The original sound that produced that sound no longer necessary, right?

It could, yeah, it might be relevant, but might not be necessary because you can not only imitating, but expanding or extended into whatever you like and make it yours. Now this is the key word: make it yours. Now imagine if that sound of voice is someone else's culture.

Emma: Yeah.

Rully: Now that's becomes complicated, right?

Rully: And a lot of people, a lot of us don't really realize this. Like, of course we are making connection by look, uh, you know, uh, this is the sound from this culture. I'm making it into my own beats and tune. Yeah, of course it will associate that to the original sound. But once you modify it, once you make it yours, then the original is not necessary anymore, right?

Rully: Yeah. And then it becomes only about the sound. It's not about what that culture is representing or the values that the culture is representing. Now, which is for me, what is the most important thing about culture is the values. Not the music, the art, the clothing, the motif, that's all just motifs.

Emma: Yeah.

Rully: Yeah. The culture is about the value that is always about that. So in terms of using sound as the cultural asset and modify it and develop it or make it contemporary or whatever. It will, of course, expand that culture into something or morphing it into something else. But that again is a risky thing to do if you don't aware of what you're doing, actually, with it.

Emma: So what does this mean then to, to exploit yourself or your own body or allow the technology to exploit you?

Rully: Consent. Yeah. See, I consent that use my voice to be exploited. That's the difference.

Emma: Yeah. So we've talked about kind of the concepts or the impetus behind the project. Could you describe some of the technical elements of it? Like, how did you decide about the many interfaces that there are on, on the site? So there are some that involve drawing and shapes, with others users can create drones or ambient music.

Emma: So could you talk about some of the decision making that went into designing these interfaces for how people would then use this tool and interact with your voice?

Rully: Of course, it's just me playing around and creating, “Okay, this is fine. Okay. Make another one.” Of course, that's one part of it. But the other part is a more serious one, which is, this is how you address the issue.

Rully: Like, you know, your Ableton can modify the original sound into something new, something very personal, something different, but that means that original sound that you're using a sample, try to fit into the device. What the device can do, right? That is diminishing the potential. So it should be other way around.

Rully: The device should follow what the sound needs, right? If you want it to remove, to address this issue, this has to be reversed. Yeah. So that means. If you want to make electronic music or that sample based, it has to be customized that will accommodate what that sound need, not the other way around.

Emma: And then it also contributes to kind of like de-hierarchizing the design of a program.

Rully: Imagine if you have a drum machine or some machine that can only do like a Western tuning. If you put your sound there with different tuning, it will convert it into that. So that's very dangerous, right? Very dangerous.

Emma: And you have to do a lot of extra work in the program to get around that.

Rully: Right. It shouldn't be like that. That means, uh, it shouldn't be like that. It should be the other one. That's why I made many different kinds. So just to explore, okay, it doesn't work with this interface, so I have to create a new one. This, you know, okay, this one, this doesn't work. I have to create a different one. So it has to be like that.

Emma: It's nice also that it encourages play, like it is so playful, which also, for me, feels very different from the intimidating interface of Ableton.

Rully: It also should be like that, because if you notice, the interfaces are basically... It's like designed for amateurs or for kids. Super easy and super simple. Why the machines shouldn't be like that?

Emma: Yeah. Yeah. It's a question of accessibility.

Rully: Accessibility, exactly. Because again, because they all want all in one machine. They all want machine that can do so many things. One. But why should have to be like that? Why don't we create different ones? So many, you know, just, uh, that's why I make it easy, simple.

Emma: Yeah. And what about the process of recording the vocal sample?

Rully: Oh, that's a different process. Even way before this, you know, a long term vision that I have to record any sound that coming out of my mouth. I read like hours of reading. I have recordings of that. I have like the coughing, the, all of the, you know, little by little, I try to record as much as possible.

Emma: And is this with end goal of feeding it to AI or?

Rully: Yeah, we'll see. We'll see.

Emma: Okay, we'll see.

Rully: But logically, yeah, you know, it's a part of the extension path.

Emma: Yeah. Yeah.

Emma: (voice machine sounds)

Emma: You had a recent performance at Radialsystem in Berlin, in which you incorporated Xhabarabot. Could you talk about your experience integrating the technology into your own performance?

Rully: That was the first time. It was not planned. I was just supposed to perform the closing of the festival, Forecast Festival in Radialsystem. But then I just recently finished the Xhabarabot Voice Machines, right? And I, okay, maybe I just do this. So I invited my friend, Berlin-based DJ Die Soon. I think it's perfect for that. So we just, play the machines and then I will sing against my own voice basically. So, uh, so just, just like that. So I think it's a good concept as well as a performance, right? Like also to introduce this machine it’s a perfect way to do it.

Rully: But for me, the experience was surreal just during the soundcheck. It's like, “Wow, I just sing like, this is my voice there!” It's a weird sensation.

Emma: Mmm. Mmm.

Emma: (voice machine sounds)

Emma: Yeah, how did it feel to duet?

Rully: Exactly, it's a duet, not only with my own voice, but a better version of my voice, right? Because it doesn't need the breathing, or it doesn't need to pause to, you know…

Emma: Oh, right. Yeah. It has infinite capability.

Rully: Exactly.

Emma: But also the sound of our own voice is recorded, it’s so different from hearing the sound of our voices in our own bodies. So yeah, that must have been quite an experience.

Rully: Yeah. Surreal. For me, it was a surreal experience, but it's great. I think it's good.

Emma: Yeah. Would you perform more?

Rully: I think so. Yeah. The next one will be Australia in August, I guess.

Emma: So you describe these machines as prototypes. What do you envision for the future of these?

Rully: Because I'm not a coder, I just learn everything myself from tutorials with a little bit of AI help as well, if I don't understand some codes, help them to fix it or to explain to me what that means and everything like that. So I know that I can do only so much, you know. This is, so I wouldn't say this is finished because this is just based on my limited understanding of what a program is.

Rully: Imagine if better or a more experienced programmer get their hands on these machines. And I would love for people to, that's why it's open for free is, you know, open source is in GitHub so people can just fork it and make it better. Of course.

Emma: So this is your invitation, open invitation.

Rully: Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. It should be like that, I think. If you're technology, I think everything should be open source. Otherwise, it's dangerous as well.

Emma: Yeah, agreed.

Emma: (voice machine sounds)

Emma: Okay, pulling now back to jump out of a little bit. Yeah, that's it. Have you received some feedback from people who have interacted with the website?

Rully: Yeah, of course, a lot of positive mainly, but I'm mostly…more interested in the feedback from like amateurs or people who are not familiar with making music from computers or making sound stuff, like children.

Rully: Children love it. Children love it the most, you know? Over five year old, because they know how to use computer and stuff like that and then they love it. I think, uh, because, yeah, musicians, they will find, ah, it's too easy or too, you know. And also maybe because, “ah, this all Rully's voice, I'm tired of hearing him,” you know, no one will just like, will do that, you know.

Rully: But if they just open their mind a little bit. Well, what if that sound is your sound? Because all of that easily changed into your sound, right?

Rully: Then it will be interesting. And then imagine if every musician, electronic musician build their own interfaces that will fit to what really, what they need instead of just buy, you know, or, you know, consume products, just use the template that's programmed in your software, something like that. This is much more interesting.

Emma: Very.

Rully: All right. So it's not about my voice. I don't know. I just imagine if that is yours. That's all I'm saying.

Emma: But also, even as you say, like, when you go into some of these interfaces, it's not even so recognizable anymore that it's you.

Rully: Yeah. So, yeah. So it has all of the endless possibilities is what I'm saying.

Emma: Yeah.

Emma: (voice machine sounds)

Rully: Again, the point is, it's not about whether this can make a good music or not. It's making music using the sound that is, that have consent. That's what's important. And I'm not exploiting anything, anybody else. I'm exploiting myself. Yeah.

Emma: It's a very powerful concept.

Rully: Exactly. Yeah.

Emma: So finally, I wanted to ask, given the name of this podcast, Sonic Interventions, if the concept of intervention is relevant to you and your work, either with Xhabarabot or other projects or in general?

Rully: Define intervention in this context.

Emma: Yeah, this is the big question, is there are so many different kinds of intervention. So you could think of intervention in, like, from a societal or political perspective, you could think of it in a, from a musical perspective, technological perspective, I guess, anything that is maybe interrupting, disrupting a system or some kind–or a norm. Do you think of your work in those kinds of terms?

Rully: I think my work is always have that element. In Xhabarabot is clearly, you know, is intervention, of course, in Khawagaka, of course. But my point is not–in Alkisah, for example, that's definitely an intervention.

Rully: But for me, my main…if you really pay attention to any of my work, it's not trying to – my goal was always – the intervention is the mind, you know, so it's not to change the system or to, you know, to change the government or whatever, to own…it's not that this is. If someone paid attention to the work that I do, what it means, why I make it, how, you know, the purpose of it, I hope it would change their way they think, that's all.

Rully: (voice machine sounds)

Rully: I think that's the biggest intervention one can make, is to change someone's mind, not to ask someone to follow them. Right. “Okay, let's burn that building. Let's go!” Okay. A lot of people can be provoked to do that, but that's not necessarily change their mind. They just being a follower and this, that's never a good thing. We know that's never a good thing. What is better is even just one person change their mind completely. You know, and then, uh, when they do something, it's not necessarily they do what, what you do, may be different, but it's their own decision. That's what I'm saying. People, I hope their mind can be inspired to create something that they really, really believe in.

Rully: That's all I'm saying. That, what do you believe in? Just do that. Doesn't matter what the others are doing, but you have to know. Um, I think, uh, this is a lot of issues come from this lack of understanding, especially in the art world, you're right. Whatever you do is in your art, it has to come from you, your ideals, not based on the ideals of the funding set, right? So you don't align yourself with the theme that the fundings want. So if, if it's aligned, then ask again, this is really your ideas or is this really because you have to make, so you get the money, right? It has to be like that, I think.

Emma: Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining us today, Rully. Many thanks also to Dr. Layla Zami, my colleague and the initiator of this podcast, Stephanie Gregor at Eufoniker for producing this podcast. Thank you for listening and stay tuned for further Sonic Intervention.

Rully: Thank you.